32 replies to this topic

[Big Nake]

The brief description for this beer is HERE called Chilly Water. My friend the brewer told that they don't keep secrets and that I can freely share this recipe. This might be the best Amarillo-Citra pale ale I have had and I've had a number of them. I drank a few of these last Friday night and it was exceptional. Very pale, clean-tasting with a super-juicy flavor from the late hops and a nice big & fluffy head. Very drinkable beer. Here is what he gave me:

Chilly Water Pale Ale

45% Pale 2-row malt (I'm using Rahr Pale Ale malt)
45% Red Wheat (he says that white wheat is fine too)
10% CaraVienne
1 ounce Amarillo pellets 8% for 60 mins (approx. 35-36 IBU)
1 ounce Amarillo pellets 8% for 10 mins
1 ounce Amarillo pellets at flameout (whirlpool)
1 ounce Citra pellets at flameout (whirlpool)
1 ounce Amarillo plus 1 ounce Citra dry hopped for 10-12 days at room temperature
White Labs 01 or Wyeast 1056

OG: 1.050, FG: 1.012, IBU: 45, SRM: 7, ABV: 4.8%

He tells me that he mashes this at 152°. Their yeast comes from the Brewing Science Institute but he tells me that it's basically WLP001 or 1056. He says that for the flameout/whirlpool addition, they add the hops and "spin it" (I'll translate that to "stir it") and then let it settle for 20 minutes and then he says that it takes 40 minutes to drain the kettle so those flameout hops get a lot of contact time with the hot wort. Not sure how to achieve this on a homebrewing system with an IC. Then he calls for an ounce of each hop as a dry hop but he stressed doing the dry hop at fermenting/room temps because he says that adding dry hops when the beer is cold (keg, etc) brings out much more vegetal character than doing it at room temp and not enough of the essential oils are extracted at cold temps. Not sure I have ever heard this before. Clearly this was scaled down to a homebrew sized batch so there might be some small inconsistencies but seems like a beer I would like to attempt and I have everything I need including WLP001 and 1056 both currently fermenting batches at the moment. I plan to make this one day this coming weekend.

[neddles]

Thats dangerously close to the recipe for 3F's Gumballhead and a few brewbie variants here.https://www.brews-br...2-gumball-head/ I should add that it will be tasty. And were it mine I would not waste tasty Amarillo at 60. That makes no sense to me. Whirlpool the hops for 30 mins or so after chilling to 165f. You get what you need from them that way.

Edited by nettles, 19 January 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[HVB]

Thats dangerously close to the recipe for 3F's Gumballhead and a few brewbie variants here.https://www.brews-br...2-gumball-head/ I should add that it will be tasty. And were it mine I would not waste tasty Amarillo at 60. That makes no sense to me. Whirlpool the hops for 30 mins or so after chilling to 165f. You get what you need from them that way.

I thought Gumball Head too! I also agree with you on Amarillo at 60. With that said, the posted recipe looks real tasty to me.

[Big Nake]

I thought for sure that he would tell me to get X number if IBUs at 60 by using something clean for bittering but he actually said he used Amarillo for this. Unusual for sure but who knows what Amarillo does when you use it for bittering? Maybe there is some magic there or something. Not sure on that and also kind of scratching my head about the high percentage of wheat in a pale ale. Is that a common thing or are there a lot of commercial examples of this? Also, I'm going to try to whirlpool these for as long as possible but sitting there stirring for 30 minutes sounds like a real chore. I have added hops after flameout and let them steep with the lid on for 15 mins and THEN chilled. I dunno. Maybe I'll chill to 165-175, add the hops, stir for 5-10 mins and then just let the brewpot sit at that temp for another 20 mins and THEN chill it down and get it ready for pitching.

[HVB]

That is a good point and it is just one ounce. I can sacrifice an ounce of hops.

[Brauer]

 Also, I'm going to try to whirlpool these for as long as possible but sitting there stirring for 30 minutes sounds like a real chore. 

I don't see that in your description above. Are you sure they do that? That seems like an unusual whirlpool, because the trub would never settle.

[neddles]

There is a quote in For The Love of Hops and I cant remember who said it (Ill look it up later) but its a well know commercial brewer who lamented the quality of Amarillo's bittering. That said if you liked this dudes beer then it probably irrelevant. Brew it up. And dont fear the wheat!

[neddles]

Oh, and dont stir for 30 minutes. Getting the hop oils into solution does not require constant stirring. Throw them in and stir until the pellets break up and let steep them 30 min. Its not going to hurt to come back and swirl them around once or twice during the 30 min. but I havent noticed a difference by not coming back to stir them up again.

[djinkc]

This sounds like what my Am Wheat house brew has settled into more or less.  A bit higher IBUs and Special Roast or a Cara malt. I'm always 50/50 barley/wheat. I use the IC to knock it down to 175, pellets and whirlpool with a 15 minute rest.  Then run through the plate chiller and pitch.  I guess there's  no reason to chill the rest of the way with the IC after the rest.  Just works better here.  Amarillo Citra sounds nice.

[Big Nake]

I don't see that in your description above. Are you sure they do that? That seems like an unusual whirlpool, because the trub would never settle.

Here is his exact quote: And yes, the 0 min. hops get whirlpooled where we spin it for 5 minutes, let it settle for 20 minutes, and then it takes 40 minutes to empty the kettle so they get a lot of contact time with hot wort.

[Big Nake]

Oh, and dont stir for 30 minutes. Getting the hop oils into solution does not require constant stirring. Throw them in and stir until the pellets break up and let steep them 30 min. Its not going to hurt to come back and swirl them around once or twice during the 30 min. but I havent noticed a difference by not coming back to stir them up again.

So add them when the wort is a little lower (175°), stir for 5 minutes and then just let the brewpot sit at that temp for another 20 minutes or so... and then chill? I know that the one whirlpool process we always talk about is to lower the wort temp from boiling to 175, throw in hops and stir for 10 minutes or whatever and then chill. This suggests that the hops would steep at higher temps and then 20-30 minutes after flameout... chill all the way down to pitching temps. Anyone want to clarify that? I have done some whirlpooling but not very much and I'm not sure if the longer times at higher temps is what I'm shooting for. Cheers kids.

[Brauer]

Here is his exact quote: And yes, the 0 min. hops get whirlpooled where we spin it for 5 minutes, let it settle for 20 minutes, and then it takes 40 minutes to empty the kettle so they get a lot of contact time with hot wort.

That sounds like they stir for 5 minutes, to me.

 

So add them when the wort is a little lower (175°), stir for 5 minutes and then just let the brewpot sit at that temp for another 20 minutes or so... and then chill? I know that the one whirlpool process we always talk about is to lower the wort temp from boiling to 175, throw in hops and stir for 10 minutes or whatever and then chill. This suggests that the hops would steep at higher temps and then 20-30 minutes after flameout... chill all the way down to pitching temps. Anyone want to clarify that? I have done some whirlpooling but not very much and I'm not sure if the longer times at higher temps is what I'm shooting for. Cheers kids.

You'll get noticeable IBU extraction with a whirlpool at flameout temperature and lose some flavor to volatilization. At 175F, you get much less IBU contribution and more flavor retention. I throw the hops in, stir it around, then walk away for 30'-60', then finish chilling.

[positiveContact]

on my recent pliny clone brew I added some of the hops at flameout and then chilled for a little while and added the rest around 170F and let it sit for another 20 minutes or so before resuming chilling.  overall it took me about an hour to chill the 10 gallons.

[HVB]

on my recent pliny clone brew I added some of the hops at flameout and then chilled for a little while and added the rest around 170F and let it sit for another 20 minutes or so before resuming chilling.  overall it took me about an hour to chill the 10 gallons.

what is your chiller?

[neddles]

You'll get noticeable IBU extraction with a whirlpool at flameout temperature and lose some flavor to volatilization. At 175F, you get much less IBU contribution and more flavor retention. I throw the hops in, stir it around, then walk away for 30'-60', then finish chilling.

Yep . This is what I do. Probably makes little difference but I go down to 160-165F and usually rest for only 30 min. I have gone as long as 60 but can't say it made a difference.

[positiveContact]

what is your chiller?

 

50' copper IC.  if I really wanted to I could probably get the chill done in about 30-40 minutes but I don't run the cold water through at full blast.  if I actually have snow I'll use the sub-pump and I can chill it in probably 20 minutes.

[Big Nake]

Okay, then I will chill from 212 to 175°, throw in the 1 ounce each of Amarillo & Citra, stir for 5 minutes and then put the lid on and let it sit like that for another 25-30 minutes and then chill it the rest of the way down. With past whirlpool additions, I have brought the wort to 175, added the hops, stirred for 10 minutes and then continued the chill. We'll see how this goes. Looks like brewday will be either Friday or Saturday... supposed to be 40° here both days.

[HVB]

Okay, then I will chill from 212 to 175°, throw in the 1 ounce each of Amarillo & Citra, stir for 5 minutes and then put the lid on and let it sit like that for another 25-30 minutes and then chill it the rest of the way down. With past whirlpool additions, I have brought the wort to 175, added the hops, stirred for 10 minutes and then continued the chill. We'll see how this goes. Looks like brewday will be either Friday or Saturday... supposed to be 40° here both days.

I think the sitting or "steep" is the key.  For my process I let the hops spin with the whirlpool for about 15 minutes and then I stop that and let it sit for anywhere from 20-40 minutes depending on what I have going on.

 

This seems pretty close to a citra wheat I do.

 

5.5 lb (51.2%) Wheat Malt - added during mash

4.5 lb (41.9%) Canadian 2-Row Malt - added during mash

0.75 lb (7.0%) Belgian Caravienne - added during mash

5.5 g (9.2%) Citraâ„¢ (13.6%) - added first wort, boiled 75 m

5.5 g (9.2%) Citraâ„¢ (13.6%) - added during boil, boiled 60 m

10.0 g (16.7%) Citraâ„¢ (13.6%) - added during boil, boiled 15 m

5.5 g (9.2%) Citraâ„¢ (13.6%) - added during boil, boiled 5 m

5.5 g (9.2%) Citraâ„¢ (13.6%) - added during boil

28 g (46.7%) Citraâ„¢ (13.6%) - added dry to primary fermenter

 

I want to give the beer you posted a try. 

[Big Nake]

What I'm finding surprising is this 2-row + wheat + caravienne model. I used to have caravienne in my inventory all the time but at some point realized I could use C20 or something instead. For this, I had to go get some. Your recipe looks great and I have to admit that I really like Citra (this FLAT EARTH recipe I have came out great and I'm making it again soon) and I really like Amarillo and together they're exceptionally nice.

[HVB]

What I'm finding surprising is this 2-row + wheat + caravienne model. I used to have caravienne in my inventory all the time but at some point realized I could use C20 or something instead. For this, I had to go get some. Your recipe looks great and I have to admit that I really like Citra (this FLAT EARTH recipe I have came out great and I'm making it again soon) and I really like Amarillo and together they're exceptionally nice.

FTR I have done this with both caravienne and C-20 and have not found much difference.  I have also done a version that was Amarillo/citra and it was excellent.  Not sure why I have not done it again, must be that I like just dealing with one bag of hops:)