60 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

This one I made with the Cologne Malt would probably be the darkest Kolsch I have encountered.

When I first heard of this malt, with it's slightly darker than Vienna Malt color, my first thought was that it sounds like it could make a great Alt. 

[Big Nake]

When I first heard of this malt, with it's slightly darker than Vienna Malt color, my first thought was that it sounds like it could make a great Alt.

Ah, very possible. Also possible that I should have used *SOME* amount of the Cologne malt along with some pilsner to get some balance but I didn't think of that at the time.

[Brauer]

Ah, very possible. Also possible that I should have used *SOME* amount of the Cologne malt along with some pilsner to get some balance but I didn't think of that at the time.

Perhaps. That's the way I use Mild Malt to make Milds, some percent mixed with Pale Ale Malt, instead of all Mild Malt.

[SchwanzBrewer]

My Kölsch is brilliant clear and solidly gold colored. It's a really pretty beer. Some no nothing provisional judge docked me a point for it being too dark. He doesn't know is asshole from his elbow. Mine is mostly pils with a little 6L Munich. If it's dark, it's a 6 SRM and it's really probably a 5, but you are nit picking and probably wrong if you try and dock a beer for color when it's that close. Most people don't use the color guide correctly anyway.

[Big Nake]

My Kölsch is brilliant clear and solidly gold colored. It's a really pretty beer. Some no nothing provisional judge docked me a point for it being too dark. He doesn't know is asdjole from his elbow. Mine is mostly pils with a little 6L Munich. If it's dark, it's a 6 SRM and it's really probably a 5, but you are nit picking and probably wrong if you try and dock a beer for color when it's that close. Most people don't use the color guide correctly anyway.

I agree, that's nonsense. The color of the beer could be different based on the beer glass you use. Did the judge see the beer in a standard kolsch glass? I doubt it. Another reason I don't have a lot of confidence or interest in competitions. I've had beers I thought were good do well and not do well. I've had beers I thought were not good do well and I was looking for feedback but didn't get much or any because the judge actually thought it was good. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

[SchwanzBrewer]

I agree, that's nonsense. The color of the beer could be different based on the beer glass you use. Did the judge see the beer in a standard kolsch glass? I doubt it. Another reason I don't have a lot of confidence or interest in competitions. I've had beers I thought were good do well and not do well. I've had beers I thought were not good do well and I was looking for feedback but didn't get much or any because the judge actually thought it was good. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

 

I only bitch because I know for a fact it's an awesome beer. I'm also splitting hairs too because it did get bronze. Go figure. The round two judge said the color was out of style as well. He was a master judge. BS. It's a great beer. 

[Big Nake]

Peeps: I just sampled the more authentic recipe I made (the recipe shown in post #1 of this thread) and I can only say WOW. Very simple, very straightforward, very authentic-tasting. I gelled it in the secondary and then again in the keg after it was cold. The first glass was cruddy but I can tell it will be clear shortly. This is an outstanding beer and totally my kind of beer. My notes show that all of the temps and pH measurements were right on and it shows. Really nice recipe. I will snap pics of both beers when I can.

[Big Nake]

Curse my poor cell-phone pic talent. Anyway, here is a slightly out of focus shot of these two kolsch beers side by side. On the left is the pilsner version and on the right is the all-Cologne malt version. The cologne malt version is maltier, deeper and it seems less crisp. The pilsner version is brighter in color and flavor, drier, crisper, etc. There is some condensation but the darker one is actually very clear. The lighter one has only had about 2 pints taken from the keg and I added gel solution to that keg so schmengie and schputz are still dropping to the bottom of the keg, I believe. Anyway, both good beers but the pilsner version represents the style much better, IMO. I could see adding a pound or two of the cologne malt to give it some depth but it's not necessary. Cheers peeps.

[Brauer]

The one on the left looks too pale to me.

[Big Nake]

So maybe something along the lines of 50% kolsch/colgne malt and 50% pils for the base malt and then some wheat, carafoam, etc. on top of that?

[neddles]

What does the cologne malt taste like in the beer as compared to pils?

 

ETA: Nevermind, saw your description above.

Edited by ettels4, 06 June 2014 - 06:04 PM.

[Genesee Ted]

I appreciate that pic Brauer, because I was about to say the same thing.  If the Cologne malt is too dark, it isn't by much.  It looks very much like what I drank in Cologne.  Ken, I think you are on the right track blending with pils.  

[Big Nake]

I hear a lot of people saying that their go-to kolsch recipe is pils + wheat + carapils/carafoam which is not going to give you a lot of color, for sure. I could see supplementing the grain bill with some of the cologne malt to give it some depth and maltiness and then possibly lower the mash temp to make sure you still get some dryness.

[Brauer]

I appreciate that pic Brauer, because I was about to say the same thing.  If the Cologne malt is too dark, it isn't by much.  It looks very much like what I drank in Cologne.  Ken, I think you are on the right track blending with pils.  

It looks like 25% Koelsch Malt would hit SRM 5. Do you think that would be closer to average?  It's been too long since I've been, but I doubt they were as pale as the one on the left. Also, the color of the one on the right looks a lot more appealing.

 

I hear a lot of people saying that their go-to kolsch recipe is pils + wheat + carapils/carafoam which is not going to give you a lot of color, for sure. I could see supplementing the grain bill with some of the cologne malt to give it some depth and maltiness and then possibly lower the mash temp to make sure you still get some dryness.

Everything I've read indicates that the modern ones use Pilsner Malt, too, but perhaps the real ones secretly use a blend with Koelsch Malt to make them a little richer. 

[SchwanzBrewer]

It looks like 25% Koelsch Malt would hit SRM 5. Do you think that would be closer to average?  It's been too long since I've been, but I doubt they were as pale as the one on the left. Also, the color of the one on the right looks a lot more appealing.

 

Everything I've read indicates that the modern ones use  Pilsner Malt, too, but perhaps the real ones secretly use a blend with Koelsch Malt to make them a little richer. 

 

*sigh*

 

I use a little munich 6L in mine to make it more complex. It's the same color as the ones in your pic.

 

Delicious beer.

[Big Nake]

For the record, the one on the left was mashed at 149.6° and the one on the right was mashed at 150.7°. One degree may not make much difference but when coupled with the fact that the one on the left was also all pilsner malt for the base and the right beer was all Cologne malt, these are two very different beers. The one on the right is heavier, deeper, maltier, etc. The one on the left is much lighter, brighter, crisper and more refreshing. As a takeaway (and since I haven't attempted this style in awhile), I would say that I like the one on the left better and if making the style again, I could see using some amount of the Cologne Malt but certainly not ALL of the base malt. Also, I like the way the Spalt hops taste in this beer too. I used 2565 for both but they're quite different beers and if I handed any of you a glass of the darker one, you may not recognize it as a kolsch beer whether it be by sight, smell or taste. It seems more like a blonde ale or something. The Santiam hops might contribute to that fact too.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Sometimes I have to laugh at the BJCP style guide. The SRM range for a kolsch is 4 to 5. That's a pretty tight window. If I had to guess, the one on the left looks too light but would probably be better received by judges and the one on the right is too dark and would probably get dinged more for color. Realistically, color should only result in the loss of 1 point, but it does trickle down into other areas. 

 

Ken- have you tried blending the two beers in your glass?

[Big Nake]

Sometimes I have to laugh at the BJCP style guide. The SRM range for a kolsch is 4 to 5. That's a pretty tight window. If I had to guess, the one on the left looks too light but would probably be better received by judges and the one on the right is too dark and would probably get dinged more for color. Realistically, color should only result in the loss of 1 point, but it does trickle down into other areas.    Ken- have you tried blending the two beers in your glass?

Yes, I have done that but not often and in this case, the darker one is on tap in my bar and the lighter one is in the on-deck fridge so blending on these two won't be happening. I'm actually trying to drink up the darker one so I can get the lighter one to one of the draft fridges. Also, realize that these beers are in a standard kolsch glass in that pic. When I tap the darker one into a standard pint glass or other larger glass, it looks more like a festbier or even a pale ale.

[Big Nake]

A slightly better, clearer shot of this darker version in a nice glass that I ...ahem... borrowed from an Austrian biergarten.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

A slightly better, clearer shot of this darker version in a nice glass that I ...ahem... borrowed from an Austrian biergarten.

Nice looking beer! I'd drink it