35 replies to this topic

[neddles]

I'm going to have my hand at this too. As always, chime in with your input.

 

I feel like I can pretty easily control fermentation temps in a swamp cooler in my basement right now and probably for another month or two. I'm going with the BCS recipe because I figure it's pretty safe to make a nice example of the style. Maybe I shouldn't go with so delicate a style for my first lager but it should revel pretty easily where my shortcomings are. So trying to eliminate the shortcomings please review my points of understanding about lager fermentation/procedure and add/subtract from it as you see fit.

 

1. 90 min boil to prevent DMS with such a high % of pils malt, quick chill for the same reason. Not lager specific but very relevant to this recipe.

 

2. I'll probably chill overnight like chils does to drop as much trub as I can and pitch the next day. If all goes well the cake (or part of it) will be re-pitched on a Maibock.

 

3. Pitch a boatload of yeast. (lager starter estimated with yeastcalculator.com) Something like 400b cells.

 

4. I always hear give a lager plenty of O2. Give more than an ale?... or is 60 sec sufficient at 1.049?

 

5. Pitch cold. like 45-48F or so and then bring up to 50F and ferment to completion at 50F, or maybe raise to 52-55 when the fermentation slows.

 

6. After TG is reached I'll probably rack it to a keg and lager at 33F for 4 weeks or so. Gelatin finings if needed.

 

Here is the recipe. If anyone thinks it will make a difference suggest another bittering hop. I also have US Hallertauer Tradition, Norther Brewer and Hersbrucker on hand.

 

Munich Helles

 

Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal

Kegging Volume: 5.00 gal

Estimated OG: 1.049 SG

Estimated Color: 4.5 SRM

Estimated IBU: 18.6 IBUs

Boil Time: 90 Minutes

 

Amt                   Name                                                              Type          #        %/IBU      

10 lbs                Pilsen, Best Malz (1.6 SRM)                           Grain         1        90.9 %        

12.0 oz              Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM)                 Grain         2        6.8 %      

4.0 oz                Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30.0 SRM)             Grain         3        2.3 %      

23.00 g              Saaz, Czech [5.60 %] - Boil 60.0 min            Hop           4        18.6 IBUs  

1.00 Items         Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)                     Fining        5        -          

0.50 tsp             Wyeast Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         6        -          

1.0 pkg              Munich Lager (Wyeast Labs #2308)              Yeast         7        -          

 

Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body

Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs

----------------------------

Name              Description                             Step         Temperat    Step Time  

Saccharification  Add 37.66 qt of water at 157.5 F        152.0 F       75 min

 

ETA: I should add that I would be shooting for a mash pH of 5.2-5.3. As far as mineral content goes I think I would start with 100% RO water and add calcium chloride to 50ppm or so of calcium. Nothing else.

Edited by ettels4, 09 March 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[johnpreuss]

**DROOLING**  quick wipes drool off face

 

That looks like a fine beer.  I'm sure we're going to hear Ken chime  in about pH and yellow lagers here shortly but you are a water hound as well so it shouldn't be an issue.

[Big Nake]

**DROOLING**  quick wipes drool off face   That looks like a fine beer.  I'm sure we're going to hear Ken chime  in about pH and yellow lagers here shortly but you are a water hound as well so it shouldn't be an issue.

Since my latest attempts have my head spinning, I have nothing to say really except that this will make a nice beer. I probably wouldn't use Saaz as the hop but that doesn't you can't. Hersbrucker would probably be my first choice with Tradition a close second. Also, I don't boil anything for 90 minutes... even all-pils beers. No DMS in my beers and I'm sure I would pick it up. A good, quick chill should take care of it. I have heard that if you can get the boil from 210° to 140° in 3 minutes or less, DMS will not be an issue. Your call on that. I oxygenate my lagers for 60-90 seconds. I pitch into cool wort and I also leave the kettle in a sink with ice and water for 20-30 minutes. After the IC gets the wort down to 60°, going another 10° to 50° or so is not tricky and I probably wouldn't wait overnight but you could without issue, IMO. Should be a great beer!

[Steve Urquell]

Looks good. For my system, I would add 6.5g CaCl2 to hit 50ppm Ca+ and 4 oz of acid malt. That would hit pH 5.3 on the nose. If you overnight chill, your wort going in to the fermenter is crystal clear with great trub separation. It saves me time (and frustration)on brewday cause I just dump my kettle into a sanitized bucket after my chiller has stopped chilling where I used to dork around pouring thru a strainer.

[neddles]

Looks good. For my system, I would add 6.5g CaCl2 to hit 50ppm Ca+ and 4 oz of acid malt. That would hit pH 5.3 on the nose. If you overnight chill, your wort going in to the fermenter is crystal clear with great trub separation. It saves me time (and frustration)on brewday cause I just dump my kettle into a sanitized bucket after my chiller has stopped chilling where I used to dork around pouring thru a strainer.

Chils, I should ask, by separation do you mean like compaction at the bottom of the kettle? I get a nice cold break when I chill that quickly begins to separate and fall but it only drops a little more than half way down the kettle after 20-30min. or so. So when I siphon to the fermentor I draw from the top and half, or a little more than half, of my wort is crystal clear going in. The rest has trub in it. I am at 6 gallons post boil so I leave .5 gallon in the kettle which I can usually keep the hops confined to with a good whirlpool. My understanding is that when you chill the kettle overnight this trub layer further compacts substantially allowing you to siphon off mostly clear wort. Is that right? I would probably just put my kettle in a big bucket of snow and ice water and wait until the next day to siphon. Sound right?

[Steve Urquell]

Yep, when I siphon off the next day, the trub and break material is tight on the bottom of the fermenter. I siphon crystal clear wort all the way down.

I would only leave it overnight in a SS kettle with the lid edges sealed with foil. I left mine overnight in my alum kettle once--didn't even think about possible leeching due to acidity till the next day. I didn't have a problem but my kettle has a great oxidation layer. Wouldn't do it again though.

I also use the overnight chill to allow my yeast to ramp up. On brewday I pull 1 gallon of wort, chill to 50F and put in a 1 gal jar with my yeast, .5 tsp nutrient and .5tsp DAP. I place it in my chamber set at 50F. By pitching time it is very active and I get clean rapid ferments. It's called drauflassen. https://braukaiser.c...tle=Drauflassen

[neddles]

Yep, when I siphon off the next day, the trub and break material is tight on the bottom of the fermenter. I siphon crystal clear wort all the way down.

I would only leave it overnight in a SS kettle with the lid edges sealed with foil. I left mine overnight in my alum kettle once--didn't even think about possible leeching due to acidity till the next day. I didn't have a problem but my kettle has a great oxidation layer. Wouldn't do it again though.

I also use the overnight chill to allow my yeast to ramp up. On brewday I pull 1 gallon of wort, chill to 50F and put in a 1 gal jar with my yeast, .5 tsp nutrient and .5tsp DAP. I place it in my chamber set at 50F. By pitching time it is very active and I get clean rapid ferments. It's called drauflassen. https://braukaiser.c...tle=Drauflassen

For the drauflassen do you pitch a starter into that gallon or a single smack pack/vial?

[johnpreuss]

Where was this info before I...... Oh wait, I used dry yeast.

[Steve Urquell]

For the drauflassen do you pitch a starter into that gallon or a single smack pack/vial?

3qt stirplate starter crashed and decanted or my harvested yeast for 7 gallon batches. @JP: I haven't tried it with dry yeast but may give it a whirl and see if it helps it start a little quicker. I def do it with harvested dry yeast.

Edited by chils, 11 March 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[neddles]

Finally making this today. Bittered with Hersbrucker and OG of 1.050. Going to chill it to 55ish with the chiller then refrigerate cold all day and pitch it tonight.

 

Mash pH of 5.27 Ca-50, Na-8, SO4-19, Cl-78

Pre-boil pH-5.23 (This is for Ken, I don't usually measure this)

[Big Nake]

Finally making this today. Bittered with Hersbrucker and OG of 1.050. Going to chill it to 55ish with the chiller then refrigerate cold all day and pitch it tonight.   Mash pH of 5.27 Ca-50, Na-8, SO4-19, Cl-78 Pre-boil pH-5.23 (This is for Ken, I don't usually measure this)

After this latest tool landed in my toolbox over the past week or so, Helles was one of the first beers I thought of making. I would prefer to make it with 2124 which I have but it's not running at the moment. I would probably do something very similar to yours... pils, maybe 12 ounces each of Munich 10L and Vienna, possibly some aromatic and then a blend of Spalt and either Hallertau or Tettnanger along with the 2124. 50% distilled water, 5.2 mash pH, get the sparge pH into the mid 5s, kettle pH of 5.2-5.3. I could see that working nicely. Ettels, did you have to use a good amount of acid to keep those pH levels in check?

[neddles]

Yeah I added 6ml to 8.3 gallons of mashwater. Turned out that was just a touch too much. It came in just a little under 5.2 so I bumped it with .5 gram of baking soda. The rest of the brew went well and I got it down to 55f in about 12 minutes. It now resides in the kettle in a cold snow-water bath.

[Big Nake]

Yeah I added 6ml to 8.3 gallons of mashwater. Turned out that was just a touch too much. It came in just a little under 5.2 so I bumped it with .5 gram of baking soda. The rest of the brew went well and I got it down to 55f in about 12 minutes. It now resides in the kettle in a cold snow-water bath.

I like the idea of knowing ahead of time what might be required so I'm going to *GASP* try to use Bru'N'Water for some upcoming batches similar to how we worked on the last one I just made over the weekend. I might take the approach of adding 'not quite enough' and checking the mash pH so I don't have to backtrack. If it's not quite low enough, a little more acid is fine. That's going to be an excellent spring & summer beer and I'm looking forward to some of the pale lagers I have coming up as well. We'll need to start a POST A PIC OF YOUR BEER thread shortly so we can all get a peep of these great-sounding beers. Cheers.

[neddles]

I like the idea of knowing ahead of time what might be required so I'm going to *GASP* try to use Bru'N'Water for some upcoming batches similar to how we worked on the last one I just made over the weekend. I might take the approach of adding 'not quite enough' and checking the mash pH so I don't have to backtrack. If it's not quite low enough, a little more acid is fine. That's going to be an excellent spring & summer beer and I'm looking forward to some of the pale lagers I have coming up as well. We'll need to start a POST A PIC OF YOUR BEER thread shortly so we can all get a peep of these great-sounding beers. Cheers.

Throw me a line if you need to work through BrunWater again. That approach sounds good. 

 

As far a pics go, we should have a thread like that. What do I have to do to get my pics on here, get a photo bucket account? How do you do it Ken? 

 

It's funny, seeing a pic of someone else's beer doesn't sound all that exciting but then when I see a nice one I'm all like "Dayum, that looks nice!"

[Steve Urquell]

Ettels, I like imgur for photo hosting: https://imgur.com/

Free and not as much adware garbage on the site. Plus, my photobucket pics won't come up on here correctly for some reason.

[Big Nake]

I have web space for my Comcast account. Just host the photo and post the link here surrounded by {img} and {/img} except those brackets are square.

Here's an Altbier of mine:

Edited by KenLenard, 18 March 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[neddles]

I have web space for my Comcast account. Just host the photo and post the link here surrounded by {img} and {/img} except those brackets are square.

Here's an Altbier of mine:

See that's what I'm talking about. I want that right now.

[neddles]

Ettels, I like imgur for photo hosting: https://imgur.com/

Free and not as much adware garbage on the site. Plus, my photobucket pics won't come up on here correctly for some reason.

Thanks chils, I'll check that out.

[Big Nake]

See that's what I'm talking about. I want that right now.

I'm going to torture you now...










 

[neddles]

Hurt me Frank Ken. …and thats what they mean when they say "that beer is Ken Leonard clear"!

 

Well this MoFo be pitched. Gave it 75sec. O2 and 430b cells. Pitched at 45F it now resides in a 45F swamp cooler. Will let it rise to 48 and hopefully it will take off and ferment there. I have all the fixings for an STC1000 temp controller that I should be able to whoop together in the next day or 2. If that works out OK this sucker will be controlled much more maintenance free for the next week or two.