20 replies to this topic

[Steve Urquell]

This beer is just so purty I had to share it. It's fairly young at 2 week primary, 1 week secondary with gel, ~2 weeks in the keg but is tasting very nice, light body, very faint roast and slight bread. It's a very easy drinker and won't last long. I just need to keep my hands off for a couple more weeks so it can finish up lagering.

100% RO water with 3.4/3.4 grams of Cacl2 5 gallon mash/sparge
Mash pH 5.2-5.3 as water added during mash
Mash: (147 °F) 20 minutes; Decoction, (162 °F), 20 minutes.

7 gal batch 1.050/1.012/20 IBUs

7 lb BM Pils
3 Lb Dingeman's Munich
8 oz Caramunich III
3.4 oz Debittered Black

.8 oz Amarillo at 60
1 oz Spalt at 15

Wyeast 2124 3L stirplate starter, 4 qt Drauflassen starter 24hrs

[Big Nake]

Very nice. I just wrote up a recipe for one based on another thread. I think my recipe was A LOT of Munich II (like 99%). I have the recipe printed out and ready to go. That looks delicious right there except one thing... why isn't there any snow on the ground in your neighborhood?

[Steve Urquell]

Very nice. I just wrote up a recipe for one based on another thread. I think my recipe was A LOT of Munich II (like 99%). I have the recipe printed out and ready to go. That looks delicious right there except one thing... why isn't there any snow on the ground in your neighborhood?

I'm about to do a swap with an "imaginary friend" who also brewed a Dunkel. He did an all Munich batch and I went this way. We wanted to compare the differences. My wife tasted this one post-gelling on the way to the keg. The next day she asked when "her" beer was going to be ready. Snow is coming Saturday night. Saturday temp forecast 62F dropping to 9F overnight. Over a 50 degree drop in <24hrs

[djinkc]

Nice looking beer chils.  A new brewery in town is serving one too.  It is a nice rendition and now  I'm wondering why I have not brewed one lately.  Time to fix that.

Edited by djinkc, 28 February 2014 - 04:56 PM.

[Steve Urquell]

Nice looking beer chils.  A new brewery in town is serving one too.  It is a nice rendition and now  I'm wondering why I have not brewed one lately.  Time to fix that.

Thanks. It's my first Dunkel and I pretty much brewed a higher OG version of my Czech Polotmave Vycepni session lager. I wanted a beer that wasn't too heavy and filling. The first thing people think of when you talk about a dark beer is that it's going to be "thick" This one is easy to drink by the pint.

[positiveContact]

Very nice. I just wrote up a recipe for one based on another thread. I think my recipe was A LOT of Munich II (like 99%). I have the recipe printed out and ready to go. That looks delicious right there except one thing... why isn't there any snow on the ground in your neighborhood?

 

when i made one i used all regular munich and then just added enough carafa spec to get it to the color i wanted (it didn't take much).

[Genesee Ted]

Nice beer! I brewed one a couple weeks ago, one of my favorite lager styles

[Steve Urquell]

Nice beer! I brewed one a couple weeks ago, one of my favorite lager styles

Thanks. Mind sharing your recipe?

[SchwanzBrewer]

chils that recipe is pretty much like my alt recipe.

[Steve Urquell]

chils that recipe is pretty much like my alt recipe.

My beer does read like the BJCP 7a category to a T. This one would probably do better in comp as alt. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Big Nake]

I was looking at this style again because I have Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager up and running in a Marzen right now. I checked out some Dunkel recipes on teh Google Machine and came up with THIS thread. It features Denny, Kaiser, Babalu, Majorvices, Blatz and a host of other popular homebrewers and beer researchers. There are some good thoughts there and some recipes that maybe weren't what I was looking for but after reading through that, I drew something up based on what I have and what I thought sounded reasonable in that thread:

Munich Dunkel

7 lbs Best Malz Munich 10
2 lbs Best Malz Pilsner
8 ounces CaraMunich II
2 ounces German Carafa Special
.35 ounces German Magnum pellets 12.1% (18 IBUs, 4.2 AAUs) for 60
1 ounce Hallertau pellets 2.7% for 20 (7 IBUs)
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager yeast

OG: 1.053, FG: 1.013, IBU: 25, SRM: 17, ABV: 5.2%

100% filtered tap water, balanced water but slightly favoring chlorides. I'm looking for a good single-infusion mash temp. There was talk in that AHA thread that those who made a dunkel with A LOT of Munich 10 in it, had a malty & sweet beer and wished they had made it crisper. Someone mentioned using pils malt to accomplish the crispness and I think a low mash temp would help as well. I could also tailor the water to have slightly more sulfates than chlorides if that would help with crispness. Anyone have any direction here?

Kudos to Chils for letting me piggyback on his thread.

[Brauer]

That's similar to recipes I've used to get something more like U Fleku, a richer, sweeter beer than most of the German versions. For a Munich Dunkel, I usually leave out the CaraMunich, or only ~2 oz.

 

Have you ever made a beer with that much Dark Munich? It's a flavorful malt. Another possible variation is to cut the Dark Munich with some Light. That might also help you cut that 1.013 FG down closer to a more German 1.008-1.010 FG. Cutting the OG to 1.048 will help trim a point off the FG, too. That said, my next Dunkel will be all Munich II (okay, maybe a little Pilsner for insurance).

 

For a beer like this, I would mash at 148-149F, for 50-60' and 158F for 20-30', to maximize fermentability and conversion of all that Munich. If I was going to try a single infusion, I would try 149F for 90', but I wouldn't. If you believe the data that 153F makes a more fermentable wort, you could try that, but that doesn't seem to be true on my system.

[Steve Urquell]

Ken, I used mostly pils malt in this recipe targeting a quaffable, dry beer. I'm not much for heavy, sweet beers. I achieved exactly what I wanted to. I guess if I were going to do a single infusion mash on this beer, it would be ~152F. Step mash is easy though and I get better efficiency, so I'd recommend (if not decocting) 145F/30mins, 158F/30mins.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

That's similar to recipes I've used to get something more like U Fleku, a richer, sweeter beer than most of the German versions. For a Munich Dunkel, I usually leave out the CaraMunich, or only ~2 oz.

 

Have you ever made a beer with that much Dark Munich? It's a flavorful malt. Another possible variation is to cut the Dark Munich with some Light. That might also help you cut that 1.013 FG down closer to a more German 1.008-1.010 FG. Cutting the OG to 1.048 will help trim a point off the FG, too. That said, my next Dunkel will be all Munich II (okay, maybe a little Pilsner for insurance).

 

For a beer like this, I would mash at 148-149F, for 50-60' and 158F for 20-30', to maximize fermentability and conversion of all that Munich. If I was going to try a single infusion, I would try 149F for 90', but I wouldn't. If you believe the data that 153F makes a more fermentable wort, you could try that, but that doesn't seem to be true on my system.

Mine is all Best Dark Munich with just enough midnight wheat to color it up. I may step mash my next batch for maximum fermentability. 

[Big Nake]

I definitely want it more German... like Augustiner. So, to review: Drop the CaraMunich or lower it to maybe 2 ounces. Maybe a Hochkurz mash of 145x30 and 158x60? That I can do. On my system, if I reserve a gallon of the mash water (thicker mash for the 30 mins) and heat it to boiling, I will go from 145 to 158 when that water is added. Maybe lower the OG a smidge too? Also, Brauer... are you thinking that less Munich and more Pils would be better here? When I was over there, I tried the Dunkel at U Fleku in Prague (nice) and the H-P and Augustiner dunkels in Munich (better, IMO) and I would absolutely want to target the Munich version. I want to make this right so if you feel like posting a completely new recipe... I would LOVE to see it. I'm wondering about the water composition too and I also wonder if it's possible that this beer would be dark enough that I wouldn't have to add any acid to the mash to lower the mash pH... that would be a first for me. Cheers.

[Brauer]

Mine is all Best Dark Munich with just enough midnight wheat to color it up. I may step mash my next batch for maximum fermentability. 

I've made all Light Munich (except for the Carafa Special), Light Munich and 10-29% Pilsner, and 50/50 Light and Dark Munich +10-20% Pilsner versions (as well as a number of Czech versions with varying amounts of CaraMunich or CaraAroma) (did I mention that this is probably my favorite style?). I've strongly preferred the all Light Munich versions, so far, with the Light/Dark Munich mix as the runner-up. I just have never got around to making the all Dark Munich version, but I'll remedy that in a few weeks!

I definitely want it more German... like Augustiner. So, to review: Drop the CaraMunich or lower it to maybe 2 ounces. Maybe a Hochkurz mash of 145x30 and 158x60? That I can do. On my system, if I reserve a gallon of the mash water (thicker mash for the 30 mins) and heat it to boiling, I will go from 145 to 158 when that water is added. Maybe lower the OG a smidge too? Also, Brauer... are you thinking that less Munich and more Pils would be better here? When I was over there, I tried the Dunkel at U Fleku in Prague (nice) and the H-P and Augustiner dunkels in Munich (better, IMO) and I would absolutely want to target the Munich version. I want to make this right so if you feel like posting a completely new recipe... I would LOVE to see it. I'm wondering about the water composition too and I also wonder if it's possible that this beer would be dark enough that I wouldn't have to add any acid to the mash to lower the mash pH... that would be a first for me. Cheers.

As I mentioned above, the more more Munich the better, for my taste, but I haven't made an all Dark Munich one, yet.  However, I'm a little cautious recommending it to someone that doesn't like to experiment with new flavors, if that brewer hasn't made beers with lots of Dark Munich, before. I don't think I've ever gone over 50%, myself. A good Dark Munich is a delicious, but complex, malt. 

 

The only other trick with lots of Munich, is that you still want it to dry out. If you do decide to push it up near 1.052, you still want it down to 1.012 or, better still, less, IMO.  Pilsner Malt will probably help dry it out, but the flavor will be a bit flatter. That will probably make a beer more like Spaten or Hofbrau Dunkel, which are very nice beers that I've had liters and liters of, but not the best examples of the style. Probably an easier drinking version, though, and a lot of people prefer these versions to the more complex ones. I make beers that I'm going to like, mostly, but they are not always the beers I would make for someone else.

[Big Nake]

Okay, after metabolizing all of this for a bit, I thought it might be smart to reduce the percentage of dark munich in the beer based on what Brauer mentioned. I'm spitballing here with a recipe that anyone can feel free to edit. If the beer lacks depth for some reason, I can always bump up the dark munich on a subsequent batch.

Munich Dunkel

5 lbs Best Malz Munich 10L
3.25 lbs Avangard German Pilsner Malt
8 ounces Belgian CaraMunich
2.5 ounces German Carafa Special
.35 ounces Magnum pellets 12.1% for 60 (18.4 IBUs)
1 ounce Hallertau pellets 2.7% for 20 (7.1 IBUs)
Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager Yeast

OG: 1.049, FG: 1.012, IBU: 26, SRM: 17, ABV: 4.8%

All filtered tap water with a balanced profile. Single infusion mash somewhere between 150 and 151°. The combination of 'balanced' water and low mash temp should dry it out but depth could come from the recipe having 56% dark munich and also from the 2206 which produces a malty beer. This is going to be the next lager I make and will probably be made over the long Thanksgiving weekend. Any input, ideas or direction is welcome! Thanks gang.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

It would be good to clarify what is meant by light and dark Munich. For traditional German malt, 4-8 L for light and 8-13 L for dark seems pretty standard. American Munich seems to be closer to 10 L for light and 20 L for dark. While I've made some tasty ~100% Dark Munich (8-12 L) beers, 100% 20 L Munich might be too much/intense.

[Big Nake]

It would be good to clarify what is meant by light and dark Munich. For traditional German malt, 4-8 L for light and 8-13 L for dark seems pretty standard. American Munich seems to be closer to 10 L for light and 20 L for dark. While I've made some tasty ~100% Dark Munich (8-12 L) beers, 100% 20 L Munich might be too much/intense.

Right. I'm speaking in terms of German Munich where the "light" is around 6L and the dark is around 10L. I typically pick up Best Malz Munich and I occasionally get the LIGHT but often I get the DARK. But... I don't think I have gone over 50% of the DARK in a recipe so it's uncharted territory for me as it is for Brauer. So I figured I would dial it down a bit to make sure it wasn't out of balance. I like this latest iteration of it but I was hoping anyone with more understanding of the style would add input. When I was in Munich, I think the Augustiner Dunkel was my favorite. If you held it up to the light, you could tell that it was a very dark amber... not "black" and not cloudy. The Hacker-Pschorr may have been my second favorite and I even remember sitting outside at a dinner spot and when the beers showed up and my wife and I clinked glasses... it was the coldest beer we had when we were there. Anyway, I have this recipe ready to brew or edit based on comments and I'm thinking Friday, Saturday or Sunday will be the brewday.

[ChicagoWaterGuy]

Which caramunich are you using? I might like the lighter I to get more of a toffee character than III which could be more raisin-y.