12 replies to this topic

[matt6150]

 I think I need some. My water is so neutral. I brew mostly APA/IPA and use like 20 grams per 5 gal batch. Does this seem out of line to you guys?

[mabrungard]

Assuming about 8 gallons of total water used in the brewing, 20 grams of gypsum is not crazy high. But its on up there. I'm showing that producing about 350 ppm sulfate which is high, but many brewers like that. I would be around 16 grams, if I was only using gypsum. I actually use less than that, but I do include some epsom salt in my water to supply Mg and SO4.

[Humperdink]

So mabrungard, do you disagree with Tobias Fischborn's NHC talk about magnesium etc coming from malts? I'm curious because I quit adding epsom after reading it, but I'm curious to your take on it.

[matt6150]

Assuming about 8 gallons of total water used in the brewing, 20 grams of gypsum is not crazy high. But its on up there. I'm showing that producing about 350 ppm sulfate which is high, but many brewers like that. I would be around 16 grams, if I was only using gypsum. I actually use less than that, but I do include some epsom salt in my water to supply Mg and SO4.

I should have said I shoot for 5.5 gal in the fermenter. So I'm using a total of 9.5 gal of water. That shows about 305ppm of sulfate. Adding 10g of gypsum to the mash water and 9 to the sparge. That is the only additions I am doing.

[denny]

So mabrungard, do you disagree with Tobias Fischborn's NHC talk about magnesium etc coming from malts? I'm curious because I quit adding epsom after reading it, but I'm curious to your take on it.

 

I don't use Mg for the same reason as you, but I think that it's possible Martin is using it to increase SO4 with adding more Ca.  The Mg isn't gonna hurt in reasonable quantities.  Now, Martin can tell me I'm wrong!

[Humperdink]

I don't use Mg for the same reason as you, but I think that it's possible Martin is using it to increase SO4 with adding more Ca.  The Mg isn't gonna hurt in reasonable quantities.  Now, Martin can tell me I'm wrong!

Over a certain concentration, it has laxative effects, correct? I mean, worse than just the typical beer effects anyway

[denny]

Over a certain concentration, it has laxative effects, correct? I mean, worse than just the typical beer effects anyway

 

I believe that's true.

[MyaCullen]

I believe that's true.

yeah, but to get to that concentration in a beer you'd need to dump in a whole container

[mabrungard]

So mabrungard, do you disagree with Tobias Fischborn's NHC talk about magnesium etc coming from malts? I'm curious because I quit adding epsom after reading it, but I'm curious to your take on it.

 Absolutely, a malt wort contains ALL the magnesium and calcium needed for yeast function and fermentation. Distilled water is perfectly suitable without mineral addition for any brewing as long as the micro-nutrients are provided. There is no need to add magnesium OR calcium to brewing water. However, the problem with not including calcium in ale brewing water is that the flocculation could be poor and the beer would take forever to clear. 

 

With that said, magnesium is NOT the culprit that too many brewers make it out to be. Those of you that are AHA members should have seen that article on Bavarian water in the March/April 2014 issue of Zymurgy. In that article you will see that all waters from southern Bavaria DO have a minor amount of magnesium in them (10 to 20 ppm). I know that my palate says that those many Bavarian breweries like Weihenstephan, Ayinger, Erdinger, Spaten have tasty MALT-FOCUSED beers that don't display the harshness or astringency that Mg is reputed to produce. It is clear to me that at these low levels, Mg is a welcome addition to brewing water. 

 

There are other important reasons that you do want to add Mg to your brewing water. AHA members will get to see the reasons why in the July/Aug 2014 issue of Zymurgy. The pro brewers will see it too in their issue of the New Brewer. There is a major shift coming in how we brewers look at Ca and Mg levels in brewing water. The old mantra 'add Ca to get at least 50 ppm' is not correct for all brewing. If your yeast flocculate adequately for your use, then you don't need any more calcium in the brewing water.  

[Humperdink]

 Absolutely, a malt wort contains ALL the magnesium and calcium needed for yeast function and fermentation. Distilled water is perfectly suitable without mineral addition for any brewing as long as the micro-nutrients are provided. There is no need to add magnesium OR calcium to brewing water. However, the problem with not including calcium in ale brewing water is that the flocculation could be poor and the beer would take forever to clear. 

 

With that said, magnesium is NOT the culprit that too many brewers make it out to be. Those of you that are AHA members should have seen that article on Bavarian water in the March/April 2014 issue of Zymurgy. In that article you will see that all waters from southern Bavaria DO have a minor amount of magnesium in them (10 to 20 ppm). I know that my palate says that those many Bavarian breweries like Weihenstephan, Ayinger, Erdinger, Spaten have tasty MALT-FOCUSED beers that don't display the harshness or astringency that Mg is reputed to produce. It is clear to me that at these low levels, Mg is a welcome addition to brewing water. 

 

There are other important reasons that you do want to add Mg to your brewing water. AHA members will get to see the reasons why in the July/Aug 2014 issue of Zymurgy. The pro brewers will see it too in their issue of the New Brewer. There is a major shift coming in how we brewers look at Ca and Mg levels in brewing water. The old mantra 'add Ca to get at least 50 ppm' is not correct for all brewing. If your yeast flocculate adequately for your use, then you don't need any more calcium in the brewing water.  

Interesting. My water is pretty damn close to RO in it's mineral content so I have to build pretty much from scratch. I'm lucky in that way, but I tend to error on the side of less additions, 50 to 100 ppm of calcium. I've had issues with flocculation in some brews, even when using a relatively flocculant yeast. I look forward to reading more about this in the months to come. Thanks M.

[MyaCullen]

 Absolutely, a malt wort contains ALL the magnesium and calcium needed for yeast function and fermentation. Distilled water is perfectly suitable without mineral addition for any brewing as long as the micro-nutrients are provided. There is no need to add magnesium OR calcium to brewing water. However, the problem with not including calcium in ale brewing water is that the flocculation could be poor and the beer would take forever to clear. 

 

With that said, magnesium is NOT the culprit that too many brewers make it out to be. Those of you that are AHA members should have seen that article on Bavarian water in the March/April 2014 issue of Zymurgy. In that article you will see that all waters from southern Bavaria DO have a minor amount of magnesium in them (10 to 20 ppm). I know that my palate says that those many Bavarian breweries like Weihenstephan, Ayinger, Erdinger, Spaten have tasty MALT-FOCUSED beers that don't display the harshness or astringency that Mg is reputed to produce. It is clear to me that at these low levels, Mg is a welcome addition to brewing water. 

 

There are other important reasons that you do want to add Mg to your brewing water. AHA members will get to see the reasons why in the July/Aug 2014 issue of Zymurgy. The pro brewers will see it too in their issue of the New Brewer. There is a major shift coming in how we brewers look at Ca and Mg levels in brewing water. The old mantra 'add Ca to get at least 50 ppm' is not correct for all brewing. If your yeast flocculate adequately for your use, then you don't need any more calcium in the brewing water.  

my water has 12 ppm Mg in it, but I am more concerned with the 135 ppm of Bicarbonate personally

[MtnBrewer]

Interesting. My water is pretty damn close to RO in it's mineral content so I have to build pretty much from scratch. I'm lucky in that way, but I tend to error on the side of less additions, 50 to 100 ppm of calcium. I've had issues with flocculation in some brews, even when using a relatively flocculant yeast. I look forward to reading more about this in the months to come. Thanks M.

 

Mine is too and I also make a lot of IPAs and other hoppy beers like West Coast ambers. I finally found out how far I can go with gypsum. I made a batch using the Union Jack recipe that's been floating around in various sources (Mitch's IPA book, etc.). I added about 330ppm of gypsum and the beer came out with a bit of a minerally taste. It's drinkable and I've actually had a lot of compliments on it but to me it's not my best. So from now on, I'll limit my gypsum additions in IPAs to the 250-300 ppm range.

[BarelyBrews]

my water has 12 ppm Mg in it, but I am more concerned with the 135 ppm of Bicarbonate personally

 

My recent water test reads 26 Mg, and 313 Bicarbonate. I don't need no gypsum im finding out...